tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post4871060681402431334..comments2024-01-27T20:23:45.771+00:00Comments on Sulci Collective: What Is Experimental Fiction?Sulci Collectivehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03293833259808943096noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-77942421321582112852014-04-09T20:56:22.789+01:002014-04-09T20:56:22.789+01:00I don't think I ever thought of an experimenta...I don't think I ever thought of an experimental piece as unfinished, like you say. I mean, experiments can end and still stay experiments, you know? I supposed I thought of it as whatever breaks the mold, in terms of grammar and structure and style. Your mold and/or the mold the larger, more mainstream world uses. Sonia Lalhttp://storytreasury.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-1559537211795893272011-03-02T20:59:26.069+00:002011-03-02T20:59:26.069+00:00Anne I'm probably guilty of poor word choice r...Anne I'm probably guilty of poor word choice re character and story, but I do personally reject them as the central organising principle around which my novels are based. Yet clearly they contain both story and character, although being language-led, I prefer 'Voice' to character. <br /><br />The ultimate goal of any literature I think is to yield an emotional response from the reader, so we are very much of one accord there. I just think that since the world and our knowledge of it and ourselves has moved on since the inception of the novel, yet the novel form itself has barely changed in 200+ years, we are faced with wholesale challenges as to how to encompass the greater complexity and base knowledge of ourselves within today's fiction.Sulci Collectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03293833259808943096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-29358918339694305702011-03-02T20:51:13.766+00:002011-03-02T20:51:13.766+00:00Fascinating insight, Marc into how you view your w...Fascinating insight, Marc into how you view your writing and writing in general. Some great comments too.<br /><br />I love how language is capable of complexity and a 'spectrum of shades of meaning' - and yes the auditory impact of words as well.<br /><br />I wouldn't describe storytelling or character as humdrum - but I take your point that there's more to the whole artefact of a book than these elements alone. I also wouldn't dismiss books produced in e-reader format as lesser creations - althought they are certainly experienced in a different way.<br /><br />I'm not at all sure what experimental fiction looks like. I suppose all writing is, at some stage, experimental.<br /><br />I try to write from the heart and offer my best efforts to any readers in good faith. At that point the experiment ends. I guess art is in the eye of the beholder.<br /><br />Sorry for rambling on - hope some of it is coherent at least. <br /><br />Thanks for getting the synapses firing.writeannehttp://annestormont.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-77936482351105203012011-03-02T18:06:55.328+00:002011-03-02T18:06:55.328+00:00Back to words again in a way John. It's a circ...Back to words again in a way John. It's a circular, self-referential definition, but I have a certain sympathy with it, simply in that the terrain is constantly shifting.<br /><br />Post-modern? I don't even know what qualifies under that banner. It does not interest me. Another diminishing label I feel.Sulci Collectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03293833259808943096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-47871862154924513322011-03-02T17:54:56.536+00:002011-03-02T17:54:56.536+00:00Ted Hoagland used to tell me that experimental fic...Ted Hoagland used to tell me that experimental fiction is whatever fails. If it succeeded, it wouldn't be called an experiment anymore.<br /><br />The tidbits of definitions you give in the second-to-last paragraph just sound like reflections of a sliver of postmodern fiction to me. Maybe you view experimental fiction as essentially responding to form. For me experimental fiction is simply working with whatever you don't yet understand and aren't certain will function (or aren't certain how it will function). Hoagland's old principle is correct insofar as whenever you know the effect you've moved beyond experimenting and into knowledge.John Wiswellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07416044628686736927noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-81460333258525376992011-03-02T17:09:12.867+00:002011-03-02T17:09:12.867+00:00Love this article .Love this article .Matthew Templehttp://clownfysh.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-5212288269200690382011-03-02T16:44:54.510+00:002011-03-02T16:44:54.510+00:00I'm not sure I'm in favour of artefacts, b...I'm not sure I'm in favour of artefacts, but it seems to be the last resting place for the scoundrel 'book' in the face of overweening virtuality. When we speak our parol words are vaporous upon the air. Does our considered literary output have to go the same way upon the ether? Seems that way.Sulci Collectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03293833259808943096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-64448662984914199172011-03-02T14:15:15.283+00:002011-03-02T14:15:15.283+00:00I think it's your use of the word "artefa...I think it's your use of the word "artefact" that made me think you were wanting a separtation of form and content - in part because I know you're fascinated with how things appear on the page. But I guess by artefact you mean something more like "construct" - otherwise you would be eliminating oral literature altogether (and that predates the creation of "books" so it can't be "inspearable" from them)Dan Hollowayhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Songs-Other-Side-Wall/dp/B003LN1UBG/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-16687926179751514332011-03-02T13:03:31.634+00:002011-03-02T13:03:31.634+00:00To me, experimental fic is to pop lit like the dif...To me, experimental fic is to pop lit like the difference between a bunch of OAPs at a life drawing evening class sweating over getting Betty's boobies 'right' V Tracy with her legs apart pulling out the dosh. Slot shot! On the money.... carefully, hush, hush, tip-toe politely. Pussies eye the imaginary jackpot :)<br /><br />great post marc.<br />PenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-67040405297399694602011-03-02T12:55:15.544+00:002011-03-02T12:55:15.544+00:00I guess I take 'interesting'-cum-'enga...I guess I take 'interesting'-cum-'engaging' content as a given. Doesn't matter how you dress up uninspiring content,it just fails to engage.<br /><br />Do I see form and content as divisible & separable? Not really. Language is the DNA of both for a start off. And any formalism must emerge from the text, that is it must have a contextualised reason for being there, not just as a pretty visual flourish, or even one to wrench your eye from the page in pain/disgust.<br /><br />Art, what is it good for...? Um this is a question that involves so many levels, many to do with the market which is old ground for you and me and which I don't want to clog up this particular discussion with. But there has to be a pleasing aesthetic aspect to all art and as said above, that includes literature (that doesn't of course mean a novel can't be ugly, nasty etc). There is a raft of authors using the harmonies and hermetically sealed language of mathematics in order to produce 'harmonious' and aesthetic texts. They may or may not work and I haven't read them, but the concept and approach is one I can understand and relate to. <br /><br />I've always said language is both the marble and the chisel as far as literature goes. So no, the two cannot be separated in my mind. That they almost overhwelmingly are at present, is a failure of the writers to engage with their chosen art form. And by this I don't mean people who write vampire novels and all the pop culture genre stuff. I mean the literary fiction mob. Who seem unreflective about their relation to both fiction and literatureSulci Collectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03293833259808943096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-42986714506705395802011-03-02T11:36:54.593+00:002011-03-02T11:36:54.593+00:00I will go away and ponder at some length because t...I will go away and ponder at some length because this is a fascinating topic, but I want to wind up the spring a little, er, pose a simple question to start - do you think the emphasis on form, in prising apart literature and story, is separating two things that should have always been distinct, or fracturing a unity? And do you think this is in any way comparable to the decoupling of form and content in art that we associate with Modernism?<br /><br />I agree literature is a *long* way behind art. And the things the media refer to as cutting edge alternately make me sob and howl in derision. But do you think that pushing literature towards art is actually retrograde in the sense that it somehow gives up on literature as a separate enterprise (I know you have feelings about the interrelation of text and object so I'd love to know if you think *art* as a term can be broken down) rather than pushing it to a limit in its own terms?<br /><br />These are genuine, not rhetorical questions, btwDan Hollowayhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Songs-Other-Side-Wall/dp/B003LN1UBG/ref=pd_rhf_p_t_2noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-68623317642854744262011-03-02T11:25:38.855+00:002011-03-02T11:25:38.855+00:00Ha thanks Jen. I remember it well! It seems to be ...Ha thanks Jen. I remember it well! It seems to be forever mutating in my own mindSulci Collectivehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03293833259808943096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5179795275664264195.post-49773454131331739892011-03-02T10:06:13.057+00:002011-03-02T10:06:13.057+00:00Fascinating definition. The first time I tried to ...Fascinating definition. The first time I tried to call something "experimental," I remember, you helped! It was the only genre tag in the FF list that somewhat fit, and I was uncomfortable with the idea because I didn't really understand what it meant. You said, "Welcome to my world." :) Well, you go a long way to explaining it here.Jenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01425418200940737247noreply@blogger.com